Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Atreya Pal's avatar

1. In fixed income investing, upside is capped. Downside is not. This can result in loss of principal. Therefore, to reduce loss of principal at a portfolio level, Graham says that one should avoid losers. I fully agree with him. In fixed income investing, errors of commission (Type 1 error) must be avoided, while errors of omission (Type 2 error) don’t represent large opportunity costs. This contrasts with venture capital investing where Type 2 error significantly hurts portfolio level returns compared to Type 1 errors.

2. Graham laid out a few general principles to ascertain safety of bonds.

a. Ability to repay is far more important than security over assets

b. Ability to repay should be considered in depression conditions

c. We should not sacrifice safety for higher yield

d. Larger companies are safer

e. More stable industries are safer

f. Track record of payment of interest and dividends over a long period of time

g. Track record of management performance over a long period of time in the past

h. Safety should be tested against well-defined standards

3. Graham recommends certain specific tests to determine the safety of high grade bonds. I’d modify these standards by making the tests even more severe. There is little penalty for this. There are many bonds. Yields are not that different. My pessimism is rooted in the fact that we have not lived through a prolonged depression condition over the last 10-15 years- hence a “laboratory-test” of earnings power under adverse conditions is unknown.

a. Earnings Coverage Over Fixed Charges: Graham’s recommends a ratio of 3x for industrials, and 1.75x for utilities over the last 7-10 years. I’d look for securities where ((EBITDA-maintenance capex-lease payments)/interest) ratio of at least 5x in each of the last 10 years for market-oriented businesses, and atleast 2x in each of the last 10 years for regulated businesses with contractual cash flow streams (gas pipelines, electricity transmission, etc). I’d also look for businesses whose (EBITDA-maintenance capex-lease payments) is atleast 80% of its previous high (in last 15 years)

b. Equity/Debt ratio: Market value of equity/total market value of debt should be atleast 1 for equities and 0.67 for utilities. I’d make this more stringent through two ways: Using the ratio (tangible book value of equity/market value of debt) if tangible book value of equity < market value of equity, and using the ratio (market value of equity/market value of debt) if tangible value of equity > market value of equity. And making this 1.5x for all kinds of securities.

c. Working Capital ratios: Current assets/current liabilities > 2. I’d modify this by making an exception for exceptional consumer businesses like Haier Smart Homes, and Nestle India which meet criteria 1 & 2, but have negative working capital since their businesses are exceptionally dominant. They can demand better terms from their customers and suppliers.

4. Graham believes that the typical preferred stocks to be permanently inferior to high grade bonds.

This is because high grade bonds have promised repayment and priority of repayment over preferred stocks and equity. In contrast, preferred stock have no promised repayment, and only has priority over equity.

However, Graham concedes that exceptional preferred stocks have similar characteristics as high grade bonds (eg: Nabisco preferred stock in the 1930s).

5a:

• Highest and lowest EBIT in the last 10 years. Compare it to the $5 interest rate.

• Sensitivity of EBIT to fuel prices

• Effects of ride hailing on EBIT of cab in industry

• What is the recourse for the bond holder if the cab is non-operational due to accident- is there insurance, how does the insurance protect the bond holder?

5b:

• Interest coverage ratio (EBIT/interest)

• Accumulated Cash + residual asset value always > principal

• Tangible book value of equity/debt amount

5c:

If maturity is 3 years, accumulated cash in the enterprise would be $71 (accumulated OCF-maintenance capex (0 in this case)- net change in WC (0 in this case). Therefore, I need to know if the cab can be liquidated after 3 years, at atleast $40+ ($10 margin of safety). If it’s a 7 year bond, then I’d worry about the liquidation value of the cab at 3 years. Accumulated cash by then would be 65 (since 100 will be spent on the new cab). I’d have to ascertain that the cab can be sold for atleast $45 ($10 margin of safety).

5d:

While his primary focus would be on the repayment ability from operating earnings and accumulated cash, he’d like to have security over the bond. I’d too.

6 a: S&P BBB or BBB- --> OXY Corp 7.5 Nov 01’96 with a yield to maturity of 6.5%.

Occidental Petroleum is a large shale producer in the Permian Basin and other oil interests. It produces ~1.4 million barrels of oil and gas/day. It has a market cap of equity of ~$40 billion, and has a net debt of $15 million.

Its debt has recently reduced by $6.5 billion since Buffett bought their subdivision OxyChem for $9.7 billion. Outstanding debt by end of year is expected to be $15 billion. Annual interest expense is likely to be $1 billion.

• At $60 oil prices, depreciation is ~$15/barrel and EBIT ~$10/barrel. If oil price goes down to $40/barrel, exploration expenses can be minimized, and the company can still produce at free cash flows of ~$5/barrel. Company produces ~450 million barrels/year. Therefore even under depression conditions, OXY has a coverage ratio over interest of 2x and in normalized conditions, the coverage ratio is 5x.

• Both tangible book value of equity/total debt and market value of equity/total debt exceeds 2x

• Current assets (including their listed midstream asset)>1.5x current liabilities

• Berkshire owns 30% of Oxy’s equity and can be a backstop in case its not able to meet its obligations (rich daddy).

6b: S&P A or above -->BNSF Corp 7.25 Aug 01’97 with a yield to maturity of 5.6%

BNSF is one of the largest North American railroads, owned by Berkshire Hathaway.

• In each of the last 10 years, (EBITDA-Maintenance capex-net change in working capital) has exceeded 6.

• Tangible value of equity/market value of debt far exceeds, and market value of equity/market value of debt far exceeds 2.

• It is a division of Berkshire Hathaway- an enterprise with an outstanding record of compounding book value, as well as management reputation of honouring its obligations. Its current assets far exceed its current liabilities (if we exclude float- which will not be called at once).

• Maturities are far lower than cash and marketable securities on the balance sheet

Both would be decent investments according to Graham, however not according to me. Bond investments are inherently investments in currencies. For a long term bond to be a satisfactory investment which would retain purchasing power, one needs to be sure that currency won't inflate too much. That requires good behaviour from governments. However, political expediency, across time immemorial, has caused ruling authorities to debase currency (even in ancient rome) at the expense of the savers. US's debt is much higher now compared to Graham's days. Moreover, the current political establishment has thus far been arbitrary with their policies. Thus, expecting these long term bonds to retain purchasing power till maturity may be foolish.

7. I couldn't think of an appropriate AI prompt.

James's avatar

Question 1

Graham regards the choice of bonds as a negative art because the bond is a security with a limited return. In exchange for this limited return the emphasis must be on the avoidance of loss. It is a process of exclusion and rejection of as much risk as possible.

Question 2

The most important thing is the ability to pay, and I agree with this. Trying to collect debt when the debtor can’t pay is always a slow, legalistic and expensive undertaking, no matter how underwritten by guarantees the debt is.

Question 3

He has a selection of check boxes that must be met to qualify for high-grade lending to companies

1) Size – bigger is better. 0.5bn in sales (rough adjustment for inflation)

2) Earnings coverage 4x for industrials, less for more secure infrastructure

3) Poorest year of earnings must still be covered 3x

4) Leverage must be lower than 5x

5) Working capital must be greater than debts

6) Equity value must be at least 75% of debt.

I would still like to see all of these tests met for a secure high grade bond, though some of the tests are very severe by modern standards. Number 3 should be relaxed under some circumstances.

Question 4

Preferred stock, because the security does not stop poor performance in hard times, and limits the upside in good. Either way it’s a poor proposition, of the “heads I win, tails you lose” sort.

Convertible bonds at the discretion of the management of the company. This puts a further limit on upside as if interest rates fall or the market rate of return required falls, they can be redeemed and refinanced rather than rising to higher values.

Question 5

Setting the scenario against Graham’s tests:

1) Very small, so fails as there is clearly a high risk here if the cab driver falls ill, dies or is otherwise incapable of working.

2) Earnings coverage = 10/5 = 2. Not enough.

3) We only know the average so we need to ask what the worst year in the last 7-10 years are according to Graham

4) This test fails as the leverage is 100/10 = 10x. On an EBITDA basis it’s 100/30 = 3.3, but Graham does not use that metric.

5) Working capital we don’t know, so we need to ask. Should be $100, but this is very stringent as this would be all cash as the business needs no working capital according to this model.

6) Irrelevant as it’s not a listed company.

The most relevant metrics are earnings, as these support the whole enterprise. Closely followed by the consistency of earnings as the earnings coverage is not very high. If the cab driver earns more than 5% less than usual he will not be able to fund the interest out of current earnings. Finally the cushion of cash kept in the business is critical in establishing a margin of safety.

c)

If the bond maturity does not match the liability it will require a higher margin of cash in the business, and is therefore less safe. To illustrate this let’s look at the cabbies bank account, assuming he takes no money out of the business. Here are the 3 cases in a table of his bank balance. In the 5 year case his bank balance never falls below $25. In the other two cases it falls to -$25. Hence he will need to keep more working capital in the business to keep it afloat (the margin of safety is reduced)

Business Bank balance

Loan Term 3 year 5 year 7 year

Start 0 0 0

End of year 1 25 25 25

End of year 2 50 50 50

End of year 3 -25 75 75

End of year 4 100 100

End of year 5 25 25

End of year 6 50

End of year 7 -25

d) it would not matter to Graham in his analysis of large corporations, but it would to me in this case. Repossessing a car to repay a debt secured on it is easier, cheaper and much quicker than liquidating a large business, so it makes much more sense, and is therefore more important to secure the debt in this case, especially given the very high risk of this loan.

Question 6

Microsoft Class AAA financials from 06/2025. Values in $bn.

Microsoft 5.2% bond, maturing June 1, 2039

1) Size – 600 times larger than needed in sales

2) Earnings coverage 123/2.3 = 50 times

3) Poorest year of earnings 34/4/2.3 = 14.7 in 2017. NB, growth has rendered this a poor test.

4) Leverage 60/120 = 0.5

5) Working capital must be greater than debts 191 > 60

6) Equity value 3821, debt 60.

An easy pass. But neither Graham nor I would buy it because the yield at 4.88 is only 50 basis points above the nearest UST (May 15, 2039) 4.38 yield to maturity. He does not like taking risk for tiny yield advantage, and neither do I.

Hyatt Hotels Corp.

5.375%, 2031-12-15 S&P: BBB- (stable)

1) Size –6.6/.5 = 13.2

2) Earnings coverage interest/normalised pretax profit 0.411/.18 = 2.3

3) Poorest year of earnings must still be covered 3x. 2020 and 2021 losses due to covid.

4) Leverage 4.11/0.411 = 9.9

5) Working capital must be greater than debts 2.73 < 4.11

6) Equity value must be at least 75% of debt. 13.9 > 4.11*0.75

This one fails on 2, 3, 4 and 5. The current price is above par so the yield is 5.25%. Graham would not buy this one, and neither would I. Hotels are like airlines: when they have full occupancy, they make great profits, but their high fixed costs and semi-discretionary nature make them suffer greatly in recessions.

Question 7

Here is my script for Hyatt Hotels corp. Gives the same answers as me (rather to my relief), but with much more detail. Huge credit to Compound with AI posted by Gary for the basis of the script. I used the ChatGPT 5 Thinking model:

ROLE

Senior forensic bond analyst (ex–Big Four forensic accountant) in professional asset management.

OBJECTIVE

Surface and rank empirically verifiable credit vulnerabilities that could drive loss of principle in bond holding Hyatt Hotels Corp.

5.375%, 2031-12-15

Skip deep, theoretical teardown of the business model or product strategy; focus strictly on red-flag evidence.

DATA-GATHERING

| Bucket | Must-pull docs (last 10 yrs) | Quick query hints |

|--------|-----------------------------|-------------------|

| Core Filings | URD / Doc. de Réf. (AMF), statutory accounts, BALO notices, Banque de France liens (or local equivalents depending on listing jurisdiction) | "Hyatt Hotels Corp" "annual report" OR "rapport de gestion" |

| Transcripts | Earnings calls, broker conferences, investor days | "Hyatt Hotels Corp" "Q&A" |

| Alt-Data | Glassdoor & LinkedIn attrition, trademark/IP disputes, customs/trade data, SimilarWeb traffic, app-store ratings, insider trades, short-interest registers | "Hyatt Hotels Corp" "turnover" OR "employee departures" |

| Opinions | Broker downgrades, ESG notes, activist posts | "Hyatt Hotels Corp" "sell" OR "short thesis" |

Save full URL / file path + page or line # for every excerpt.

---

ANALYSIS Tests (score each finding ratio, Pass, fail)

1) Size – bigger is better. 0.5bn in sales minimum

2) normalised pretax profits/interest costs coverage 4x minimum

3) Poorest year of normalised pretax profits in previous 10 years must still be covered 3x

4) total borrowing/normalised pretax profits must be lower than 5x

5) Working capital must be greater than total borrowing

6) Equity value must be at least 75% of total borrowing.

(No extended business-model section—only include if a fact-based weakness surfaces in the above buckets.)

---

REPORT FRAME (flex length)

1. Executive Summary ≤ 1 page

Give pass/fail conclusion with reasons

2. Ranked Analysis Table (1-6)

| Rank | Test | ratio | difference from minimum | certainty | Pass fail|

3. Detailed Findings

One sub-section per bucket; numbered footnotes link to sources.

4. Falsifiability Checks

What could disprove each core point.

5. Missing-Data Flags

Critical gaps + follow-up query strings.

---

STYLE RULES

• Cite exact file + page for every claim.

• No adjectives without numbers.

• Bullets > prose; zero filler.

• Tables first, narrative second.

---

DELIVERY

Single .docx or PDF dossier. No CSVs, slides, or appendices unless requested.

33 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?